pot of cream style corn

In all the years The Deer Hunter and I have been married I have never not once made cream style corn. We both prefer our corn straight from the garden and most of the time eat it right from the cob. I do make fried corn sometimes and depending on the amount of milk in the corn it can turn out to be very similar to cream style corn.

A friend gave us a big toe-sack full of silver queen corn last week. We cut it off and put it in the freezer for future use. That’s how we most often preserve our corn. When I thaw up a bag to eat I heat it slowly with a little butter and salt. The texture is similar to eating niblet corn from the can, but with a much better taste.

Several times this summer when I’ve been at Granny’s she’s said “Before you leave you’ve got to taste my creamed corn. I think it’s the best I’ve ever made.” And every time I agreed with her it was mighty good.

I took some of our corn to Granny and got her to show me how she makes her cream style corn. I hope to share a video of her making it later this week.

Granny’s technique is rather strange, but she said she learned it from her mother Gazzie.

She cuts the corn from the cob and then scrapes the cob to get all thats left too. Once she has her bowl full, she adds some self-rising flour, water, and salt. She works the mixture with her hands. Squeezing and stirring the corn as she goes. Then she cooks the corn in butter until it’s creamy, by bringing it to a boil and then reducing the heat till the corn is cooked. You have to really watch the pot and stir often or you’ll end up with scorched creamy style corn 🙂

Granny said her mother Gazzie likely made cream style corn most often because she had a lot of people to feed and the addition of flour and water made the corn go further. Gazzie would fill her bowls so full that one more spoonful would have caused the corn to overflow onto the table.

Are you a cream style corn fan or a fresh roastnears fan?

Last night’s video: 29 Years of Marriage in Appalachia, Generational Connections, Shooting BBs, & Pap’s Big Rock.

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70 Comments

  1. Wow! This takes me back. A man would drive a truck full of corn around our neighborhood and Mama would buy a bunch to put up just as you described. I hated scraping the cob. She would fill baggies and pile them in the freezer. It always tasted so good when we ate some! Mama called it fried corn.

  2. Happy Anniversary !!!!
    Granny’s fried corn is just like my daddy”s.
    Reading that gave me a craving for a plateful!

  3. As you and many others have noted, there is nothing better than fresh “roastnears” from the garden. However, have always enjoyed a skillet of “fried or cut down” corn. I found it also to be much like creamed corn; and like Granny in our preparation, the cob was also scraped to thicken it a bit. I don’t recall whether a bit of flour was added; I do remember a bit of bacon grease added to the skillet prior to the corn. And as you and Granny stressed, you have to stir it pretty often. Most importantly, tho • it was always delicious, pretty much a staple as the growing season wound down, and truly a comfort food. As many Appalachian folk know, most of our meat either “came off a hog or out of the woods”, so, it always suited the meal.

  4. Creamed corn has always been my favorite kind of corn! I am looking forward to the video of your Mom showing us how to make it! I am very glad she was feeling well enough to do the video!!! She is constantly in my prayers.

    Donna. : )

  5. Have you ever tried tomatoes, corn and okry? That’s what I’m eatin right now. Just maters, corn and okry with salt and pepper. No grease, no thickener. The corn and okry both will thicken stuff. I had to add a little water to mine.

  6. Growing up in the 1950’s and early 1960’s my mom would buy corn and other vegetables at the local Farmers Market. My brother and I knew what our role was….shuck all those ears of corn. Mom would cut the corn off of the cob, then scrape the cob to get all the “goody” (as she called it) out, and cook it in butter, with salt and pepper. We would have pot roast, fresh green beans, homemade corn bread, fresh corn off the cob, brewed sweet ice tea and of course a homemade dessert. That was some good eating. Mom is now 93 years old and will be 94 soon. She doesn’t cook any longer, but in her younger years she could produce some delicious meals for family and friends.

  7. Happy 29th anniversary Tipper and Matt, May God bless y’all with many many more. Looking forward to our 57th this December. A true blessing. Granny’s corn recipe sounds wonderful. We’re fans of fresh fried corn, fresh creamed corn, fresh corn on the cob, but I believe that fresh grilled corn with a special basting recipe on it to be our favorite. Melted butter, fresh grated creamy type horseradish, whole grain mustard, honey or brown sugar, salt and pepper to taste. Then baste corn liberally, wrap in foil, throw on the grill til corn is steamy and charred. We sometimes baste more on the corn after grilling then eat it. Just talking about it makes my mouth water. Enjoyed the blog today as always. Prayers up for Granny and Katie. Y’all are so blessed.

  8. As a child, my folks only grew field type corn. Maybe flour is used to thicken sweet corn since it doesn’t seem to have as much natural cornstarch as field corn, but it does have more natural sugar, I think.

    Field corn was really good eating if it was picked at the right time and prepared for the freezer right. It was cut from the cob, the cob scraped with the back of a case knife to get all the goodness. It was then blanched by cooking about 8-10 minutes in a large wide skillet with a cup or more of water per skillet added. It would become thick in no time and had to be stirred constantly to prevent scorching. Sometimes extra water needed to be added because it thickened too much. Then it was cooled in bowls set down in dishpans of ice/water. It was stirred every few minutes to prevent a thick skin from forming on top of the cooling corn. When cooled it was ladled into quart containers for the freezer. When thawed and cooked for supper another 1/2 cup of water or more was added along with cream or milk, sugar, salt, butter or more likely in our house bacon fat. It was cooked about 5-7 minutes slowly simmering. We ate it through the winter. We made sure to have a quart container or two reserved for Christmas dinner. It was an expected delight at Christmas.

    Field corn was grown in our family to feed the humans with young corn for fresh eating, freezing, and to grind for cornmeal. The stock including the chickens were fed field corn from the corn crib through the winter. When done right, field corn was as tasty as any corn I’ve ever ate. I don’t remember eating whole kernel sweet corn until I bought frozen bags of it from the grocery store when my kids were growing up. They still love it, but me not so much. I use it as an addition to dishes like stews or casseroles.

    We grow both kinds of corn here now, but I prepare them differently. Granny has given me a great idea to add flour to the sweet corn when preparing it for supper. I will try that next time.

    Loved your Vlog about your anniversary walk with Matt up the mountain. Ya’ll have been married 29 years. Congratulations!! Last February we celebrated out 48th year of wedded bliss. My oh my where has the time gone. It seems just like yesterday that I was a nervous bride just starting out. In fact, the song sung at our wedding was “We’ve Only Just Begun”. It was a hit by the Carpenters in the 1970s. I know it seems we are old as dirt, but we are both only in our 60s.

    We’re praying for Granny and all of ya’ll.

  9. This is so ironic. My husband and I were just fixing dinner, cornbread in the oven and brisket on the grill. Corn is so plentiful in our area right now. We froze a lot of bags already and have several more ears for tonight. We were talking about what to do with the ones we don’t eat and thought about making corn fritters. Then I read todays blog and you are talking about creamed corn. I haven’t had creamed corn in so long. Perhaps we’ll have to add creamed corn to what we’ll make.

  10. My mother in law’s corn was the best ever, halfway between regular and creamed. My father in law Austin planted corn that he called Candy Corn, some type of hybrid. She simply cut the corn off the cob, then scraped the cob really good, and seasoned well with salt and pepper. When I make a mexican cornbread calling for creamed corn, I get out my little Cuisinart two cup chopper, and chop/grind a regular can of corn, then prepare a box of jiffy cornbread mix, and add a small can of chopped green chili’s.
    For those not watching their weight, they can add 1/2 cup of shredded cheddar cheese. When looking on the internet, I found a lot of corn that called for flour, butter, and milk. Some had half and half, and rich whipped cream. Too many points for my weight watchers diet:)
    Note: We continue to pray for Granny, with special thoughts of Katie, and you all.

  11. I love both styles, although right off the cob is my favorite. My mom use to say that I could eat my weight in fresh picked corn on the cob. It is still my favorite garden fresh veggie. I watched your video with Katie’s news and I’m so happy for her and all of you. That baby will be so loved by all of you and all of us who follow you all❤❤ God’s grace is always there for us all. My twin sister had a baby before and he was such a blessing and still is. I’m 72 now so it wasn’t as acceptable then. I am so thankful for God’s grace, mercy, and love. I am continuing in prayer for Granny God bless you and yours❤❤

  12. Congratulations to you and Matt, Tipper, on the anniversary of you marriage. We passed our 62nd last April (yes, I was an April Fool 🙂 ).

    Alas, I can no longer enjoy corn as I used to. There’s too much sugar in it. I still eat it about once a year, on the cob. I also put a can of niblets in my Brunswick stew.

  13. I guess I’m in-between! I really like to can corn if I can get a variety that isn’t too sweet. Growing up, we most often ate corn off the cob, heated up, with a bit of butter. In the summer we definitely had it on the cob at family gatherings and such.

  14. I’m not a big corn eater, but once in a while I eat it. When I do I prefer it fresh on the cob and sometimes in the winter I’ll eat creamed corn.

  15. When corn is fresh I prefer it on the cob with butter.
    I haven’t made creamed corn in ages, but it is delicious made from corn from the freezer. I make mine like Mom always did, with butter and a thickening made of milk and flour. To good!

  16. I was just looking at or reading the news and it seems like Tipper may have had an earthquake Sunday afternoon close to her area. This is for both Tipper and Arnold, toe-sack or towsack are both the same to me-a big burlap sack.

    To me there is nothing better than fresh homegrown corn on the cob corn. My mother in law’s cream corn was a close second. I think my mother did add milk and flour to her cream corn. I am like an old mule, I pretty much like corn anyway I can get it.

  17. Tipper , I am southern born but northern raised. My roots are in the Delta of Mississippi but two crop losses sent my Daddy north in search of employment. I loved growing up in the mitten state but having a two week stent to savor my grandma’s southern fried chicken and creamed corn was the delight of my summer. Then I married a Michigan man and we were transferred to Pennsylvania where I discovered Silver Queen corn straight from my neighbor’s country cornfield .I am a sunshine state Florida old woman blessed to have discovered your site as I tried to explain to my (late). husband what a pallet for a bed was. It meant a wood platform to him . I googled southern dialect pallet and your site proved my point. All that rambling to tell you that if you have the opportunity to try PA chicken corn soup or MS style creamed corn your taste buds will thank you. God blessed me when my stubborn self tried to prove a point to my husband… discovering your web page has brought me more comfort that words can express. This side of heaven we will probably never meet. However you are a true blessing in my life as I am in my old age and my sight is poor but God is GOOD. Loving God and loving each other is the most important thing .Give Granny a hug from your on line friend …who is thankful for her wit and wisdom.

    1. I live in northeastern Maryland about a mile from the Pennsylvania line. I agree that PA chicken corn soup is the best!

  18. I love corn however it’s cooked. Mama would cook her biggest pot full of corn on the cob and my brothers and I would leave only a pile of cobs. She also cooked creamed corn but she thickened it with a slurry of milk/water and flour which makes me think of Miss Granny’s method. We got the government commodities during that time and always received real butter! It was so delicious on corn. My husband is a near perfect husband but he will not eat corn on the cob!! I used to cut some off for him but he has stopped eating that, too. Says it gets in his teeth. It sure does but it’s well worth it.

  19. My husbands grandpa made wonderful creamed corn. When he passed, my daughter was happy to inherit his frozen supply. I have never made it. So, I’m really looking forward to watching Granny!!

  20. OK, I’m gonna sound weird. My mom never cooked much, hates to cook. So at a young age I learned to cook and bake. I would scrape the cob bone dry, add canned milk, salt and pepper and butter. That was my creamed corn. When I lived on my own, I would put tomato sauce and cheese on hot corn in a bowl. It’s good, really. How about pancake batter with corn in it. Two bottles of corn cob syrup are in my pantry. Yes I love corn. I am 67, back then we didn’t have cooking shows and you tube. Now don’t get me wrong, mama didn’t starve us at all. But her chicken was baked with no flavors. Mac and cheese in a box. Anything frozen was her favorite. Mashed potatoes are easy for her. By middle school I was a very good baker. I got the baking gene from an aunt. My dad grew zucchini in their yard. My mom did saute those with onions. It was just the way mama was raised. The youngest of 5. Spoiled. She would watch my dad and me and mumble “farmers”. My dad would wink at me. My dad was the best. Anna from Arkansas.

    1. Mama would cut her corn from the cob in 3 increments and scrape the cob and cook in fat back grease and a little water.It was thick enough to eat with a fork. Delicious with buttered biscuits and home grown tomatoes and cantaloupe.

  21. The only creamed corn I ever had came from Green Giant. I like my corn straight from and on the cobs, and preferably cooked on fire. Yum!

  22. We like corn any way you fix it. Silver Queen is a family favorite. Canned corn doesn’t compare to fresh but there are times when that’s what I have. I will take a can of whole kernel corn, drain it and mix a can of creamed style corn in with it, butter, salt, a little pepper and then a pinch of sugar. Got to “doctor” it up as my husband says. My grandmama made wonderful, creamed corn. Would love to see Granny fix her recipe for it.

    Happy Anniversary to you and Matt! Enjoyed the hike. It’s just so beautiful there.

  23. Not a fan of creamed corn, but Grannies sounds real yummy. I like fresh steamed corn on the cob, lots of butter and a little salt. I can’t stop until all the kernels are off the cob. Then you start on the fresh tomatoes and cucumbers. Perfect meal. Praying for you all. I’m getting a knee replacement next week, send up one for me. So excited for Katie and baby. Good bless you all.

    1. I hope your surgery and recovery go well. I’ve had a hip and knee replacement on the left side. I’m scheduled for replacing the right knee in 2 weeks. We can compare notes on physical therapy and recovery progress. 🙂

  24. I have always hated store bought creamed corn and loved homemade creamed corn. I can never make it taste like Mom’s, but always add the milk just like mom did. It’s the scraping of the milky substance that gives it that great taste. Half and half will really take it up a notch, but oh those calories. Same way mom made creamed new potatoes. They had to make food taste good with limited pantry staples, and they did a great job. Very few seasoning were used back in the day in our Appalachian area. I have been freezing fresh corn cut from the cob, so I can enjoy creamed corn this winter. So glad dear Granny is doing well!

  25. I love corn anyway I can get it, most especially on the cob, and cream style is my second favorite. I have never made it myself but I will try your recipe. I know a lot of people don’t like it out of the can but it has never bothered me even though fresh corn is always best. Love this time of the year for all the fresh produce from the garden. Dread it when we have to wait another year. We don’t grow a garden so I don’t do much canning unless I can get a good buy on fresh produce which isn’t often.

  26. My daddy taught me to make creamed corn, but he used frozen kernels from the store (gasp!). I have a freezer full this year and plan to make it his way only with corn from the farm. Cook your kernels in a good bit of butter until it’s golden and the butter is close to browning. Then sprinkle in a tiny bit of sugar and enough flour that it all comes together like you’re making gravy. Once it’s all sticking together, slowly add milk, stirring all the while, until you get the consistency you want. I like it very thick, almost like pudding. Salt generously to bring out the sweetness and enjoy. It’s not exactly a country dinner, but I always made this along side tuna cakes and macaroni and cheese for my kids growing up. We just couldn’t seem to eat the one without the others.

    Tuna cakes btw have no set recipe, just throw everything together until it will pat out. One can of tuna per person drained, one egg for every 2 cans of tuna, seasoned bread crumbs or plain bread crumbs with your own seasoning, a little chopped bell pepper and Old Bay Seasoning if desired (my husband’s addition, not mine). Pat out and fry in a little oil. My friend from WV taught me this many years ago. Her mother made it for her growing up.

  27. I failed to mention, back when I could eat corn on the cob I often ate it fresh. I mean right out of the shuck with nothing on it. Right there in the garden. It’s as sweet as candy.

    Corn is at its best the second you pull it. From there it’s downhill. The sugar starts turning to starch at that moment and continues until it’s practically all starch and very little sugar.

    Dusty still eats a variety of fresh vegetables in the garden. We say its food not from the garden but in the garden.

  28. My husband makes cream style corn from either canned corn or fresh off the cob. He puts it in a bowl and uses the immersion blender to blend it to the consistency he wants. Then heats it w/butter. Easy peasy.

  29. My favorite is corn on the cob. I buy store bought cream corn to make my corn casserole. Fresh corn has been so hard to find this summer. A local feller brings a truckload to an empty parking lot to sell about once or twice a week through August. I’ve stopped three times and walked away empty handed. The first time I went to buy corn, I thought there must be an vehicle accident as I drove closer to the parking lot where folks were trying to find a place to park. It was a hot day and people stood in line until all the corn was gone in about 25 minutes. The grocery stores haven’t had their big boxes of corn this year either. So I guess I will be buying my corn from Kroger’s freezer section.

  30. We love both! There is nothing like fresh corn on the cob and having fresh corn that you’ve put up for winter in the freezer.
    Congratulations on your first grandchild!! Katie made the best decision possible and I’m so glad she has you all to support her during this time and the years down the road.
    So many of us forget that when Mary found out she was pregnant with our Savior, she was betrothed to Joseph but was an unwed mother herself. I believe it was a sign from God for all humanity that no matter the circumstances all babies are ment to be born.

  31. What in the world is a big-toe sack? Is it the size of a big toe or does it just smell like one? Sorry, I couldn’t let that one pass by. I always find humor in everything, sometimes.

    If you saw my teeth you would know why I love cream style corn. I cut it off the cob, scrape down the milk (and wipe down everything that got splattered by flying corn debris) add a little butter, add a little salt and a lot of black pepper. A minute in the microwave yields a bowl of golden extravagance. It is so good it makes you feel like you ought to ask for forgiveness!

    Could that have been a big towsack?

  32. I have always been partial to creamed corn. I do like it most any way it’s is fixed though as long as it is fresh

  33. My mother made skillet corn when I was young living at home and it was my favorite growing up. Later, when visiting my folks as an adult, I asked her to show me the secret for making it taste so good. Turned out to be a whole stick of butter. I’ve made it numerous times and it tastes great, but somehow it tasted so much better when she made it. How I wish I could watch her make now.

  34. I look forward to seeing Granny’s video as we were blessed with a wonderful corn crop this season. Creamed corn is something I have tried to make but haven’t quite figured it out. I bet this will be the deal. Thank you for sharing, I appreciate you.

  35. I have never tried making creamed corn. My family always liked my fried corn which to me is creamy. I added lots of butter and cooked it slow. Anytime you eat fresh corn, it is good. Looking forward to Granny’s video. Prayers for all! Take care and God bless ❤️

  36. Hi Tipper, I love corn all ways! Boiled, cooked, creamed and any other way. I am thankful that the native Americans share it with us!

  37. My dear d-i-l makes a delicious & delightful Corn Chowder with potatoes. Creamed corn with whole corn thrown in for good measure! One of those comfort foods! For color, she adds bits of green & red bell pepper. Fresh baked bread to sop it up. yum!!

  38. My very favorite way to eat corn is “cream style.” My grandmother made wonderful biscuits and when she paired them with cream style corn it was heavenly. During corn season she made that dish either for breakfast or supper. You just make a big pan of biscuits, cut one open and add butter, then top with a big spoonful of cream style corn. So good!

  39. My favorite used to be on the cob with lots of butter, my kids used to laugh at their daddy eating corn off the cob, when I started an ear I didn’t stop until I was done.
    Time changes things though, I’ve got older and have false teeth, I’ve tried everything but can no longer eat corn on the cob. I was at a steakhouse recently that sold grilled corn on the cob, it looked so good but I knew I would never be able to eat it.
    I don’t care as much for corn cut off the cob but I really like cream style corn . My wife usually fixes greasy green beans when she makes cream style corn. I put the beans on my plate then the corn on top of the beans, if we have a fresh tomato, onion and pepper along with a cake of cornbread I have a meal fit for a king. (or queen)

    1. Philip, my grandmother would cook green beans and corn together. She left the beans whole, only snipping off the ends. Very delicious together.

  40. Oooo….I don’t think I could EVER choose a “favorite” way of cooking/eating corn! I love it any way it’s cooked….except maybe for corn pudding. But, to be honest, I don’t even think I’ve ever had corn pudding. LOL Can’t wait to see how Granny cooks hers! Thanks, Tipper!

  41. My mother always cut it three times then scrape the cob, added a little flour, salt, pepper and milk, it sure was good fried up and bacon grease. Love your family love watching y’all on YouTube. Y’all blessing to me and Papa.
    I have tried to email you through YouTube but can’t get it to go through, I would love to send you a private email. It could be user error on my part.

  42. Creamed corn fan. Daddy always grew Hastings Prolific, a field corn with a big ear and Silver Queen. Mama always scraped the cobs to get all of the kernels to cook and freeze. And, yes, you have to keep stirring the corn or it will stick to the pan and that’s a mess to clean up!!

  43. never made creamstyle corn but often made corn and gravy like i learned from my granny…basically taking milk, butter a dab of sugar, and flour to make a gravy then adding leftover corn thats been cut off the cob… guess its kinda similar

  44. We like corn both ways. Fresh roastnears & creamed corn. My family does not like canned corn. So, we do a big batch of freezer corn for the winter months. Cut the corn off the cob & scrape the cob to get the milk. So So Good when the winter winds are blowing!

  45. Cut from the cob, scrape the cob, add a bit of butter, salt and a little water if needed…….that’s as close as it gets. The scraping from the cob adds a bit of creaminess but I suspect what I make is more like Fried Corn……or just bag it for the freezer without the salt and butter…..so much better than store bought!

  46. Tipper, I’m going to send some photos of my garden bounty to you soon. I’d have to really credit you and your can do attitude with my even trying to garden and can. Many a time just thinking of you working in your garden has kept me motivated to keep going and this year I’ve been calm and enjoying myself. Cream corn is my favorite and yours looks scrumptious!!! I may as well forewarn you that there’s packages on the way to Granny’s for Katie. I got so excited I had to jump right in cause that’s the way I am…. Lol anyway I surely hope it helps like the old man said when he peed in the ocean…lol have a great day y’all and prayers for Granny and Katie’s good health.

  47. I am definitely a vote for fresh roastnears. Like you, I have never once made cream corn and my mother never made it. She and dad always grew lots of corn and froze it for winter. It tasted just like fresh roastnears—minus the cob.

    I love the way you celebrated your anniversary with a hike and a picnic. That seems like a perfect date to me!

  48. I have one of those things that you drag the cob over and it removes the kernels, then scrape it and blanch and freeze…seems to work ok that way. But, I have to say, I have got to try the flour method. I am sure Granny’s way is awesome…God Bless you guys.

  49. We always used field corn for cream style corn, clean the corn of course then with a sharp knife cut about half of the corn off the cob then scrape the cob good to get the corn milk/starch out of it, put it in a skillet with some bacon grease, salt and pepper add some water to it and start cooking and stirring, you may have to add water several times to get the consistency you want, this is so delicious, I haven’t had it in a long time but this year we planted field corn just for cream style cooking. When I say field corn it’s not sweet corn that most people eat off the cob or whole kernel corn because it doesn’t have enough starch in it to cream without adding other ingredients.
    Try it, you’ll like it.

  50. I love creamy style corn. But I also like corn on the cob. I cook the corn still in the shuck in the microwave oven for three and a half minutes on high heat and then get it out and cut the big end off about an inch and a half using a heavy serrated knife and then using a cloth or paper towel squeeze the small end like you would with a popsicle and the corn cob will slip out of the shuck with little or no silk left on it. Lots quicker than shucking and boiling.

    1. Is that not the BEST way to cook an ear of corn?!?!? It turns out perfect every time! I’m only in my 60s, but I couldn’t begin to tell you how many ears I’ve shucked and silked the hard way all my growin’ up years!

  51. I’d love to see Granny’s recipe for creamed corn, and I’d especially like to see your recipe for fried corn. I loved my mother’s but I don’t remember how she made it and mine just never is right.

    I do remember she emphasized just barely nipping the kernels with the first pass of the knife, getting the rest of the kernels with the second pass, then scraping the cob. (She called it fried but it sounds pretty “creamy.” )

    Congratulations to you and Matt on your anniversary. I loved your anniversary hike. It reminded me so much of the home I still miss.

  52. I have tried several ways to fix corn for the freezer. Cream corn is the best. I cut the corn, scrape the cob, add water needed, and cook a few mins. Let the corn cool and freeze. Season when I take from freezer. A little sugar makes it even better.

    Kathleen

  53. I like my corn fresh. Doesn’t matter which way you cook it if it is. It’s all good. Will look forward to seeing how Granny cooks it up.

  54. My mother in law made the best cream corn I have ever ate anywhere. She would fill a large chest freezer full of it each year from a truck bed of Merit corn. I would often pass up true dessert and eat more of her corn for dessert.

    Happy Labor Day to everyone. I often mention spending time with family, for many years before so many died, my wife’s family, everyone one from grandparents to great grandchildren, along with a some friends, sometimes 30 or more of us, would get together and have a large fish fry on Labor Day. A few of my sister in laws and nieces and nephews will get together and grill hamburgers today, even though my wife is no longer living, they will still include me.

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