I’ve used the phrase what for in place of the word why my whole life. For instance if Chitter came and told me “I’ve got to go to town right now.” I would say “What for?”
I believe that usage is common across the United States.
There’s another way we use the phrase what for in Appalachia.
The Dictionary of Southern Appalachian English has a good definition for the usage.
what for noun phrase A deserved scolding or whipping.
Here’s an example of how we might use it.
“That burned me up! I went right down there and told him what for and made sure he understood that it better not ever happen again.”
Sentence translation: A man did something unacceptable that upset me. I went to see him and in a aggressive manner I explained to him how upset I was and shared my expectations that the event should never happen again.
Here’s a few other examples.
- I about laughed myself to death. She followed him all the way out to the car giving him what for ever step!
- I better see some changes down there at the school or I’m going to be giving that teacher what for over this homework.
- You sure give them what for the other night and it’s about time somebody did!
This page says the first recorded instance of the phrase usage was in 1873, and Horace Kephart documented the usage in Swain County NC in the early 1900s.
So where did the saying come from? I haven’t a clue! This page has a lot of theories about the origin but nothing definitive.
Even though no one seems to know where the saying come from, I love that it’s still alive and well here in my area of Appalachia. I’m also tickled pink that Blind Pig & the Acorn is used as a source in the dictionary entry for what for.
Last night’s video: Answering Your Questions.
Tipper
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We use it both ways here and I’ve often wondered where and why that’s something we say.
Both ways.
This is a huge part of our vocabulary. I had to laugh thinking about some of the times we’d be aggravated and use it. We also use “do what”. This brought a smile.
I remember hearing “what for” used both ways and I lived most of my life in Wisconsin.
My Grannie would say that she was going to “give him what fer “
No why or what for around here.. it’s “do what.”
i’ve used what for all my life…although most of the time it is in place of why..
I’ve used what for instead of why all of my life but never used it in reference to give someone a hard time.
It sounds better than some of the other things that could be said.
I often use “what for” instead of “why” and I didn’t realize I did it until now. I guess I thought that it was just standard usage. After thinking about it, for some reason “what for” to me sounds a little more polite and not so short, especially when someone says they are going somewhere.
Another alternate to ” what for” is “the dickens”–“I gave him the dickens for breaking my ruler.” As for “They law!” –which I haven’t heard in years–we can add “Well I never!” which also seems to have faded as an expression of mild incredulity at something said or done.
I have heard the phrase all my life. We added to it by saying: “I’ll give him what for and how”! I assume it means not only giving a tongue lashing but also telling the person what they need to do to correct the situation. Loved your video last night!
I have both heard and used it in both instances. in the first when when you are asking “why” she was going to town. zI used.most often jow come. I get grow out of that
I’ve heard “what for” growing up and used it myself but not so much as I’ve grown older:)
I enjoyed your video of Q & A’s and I also cancelled my satellite t.v. as like Matt said I didn’t like the majority of what they had to offer and I sure appreciate not having that big bill each month as it has increased my savings account. My son bought me Roku and I love it. I don’t have time to watch t.v., until the evening after supper, and then I love to crochet. I can watch utube on my p.c., or t.v. too.
God Bless ya all! Prayers for Granny too!
I was wondering if Jackie is my cousin from down yonder in eastern Kentucky, but probably not since we don’t say mom for mommy. The answer to whut fur was always the same: cat fur to make kitten britches. My family never said what for when we were fussing at someone, but we did give them a piece of our mind.
My mom used to say that! But I always heard it as “cat for” but she probably was saying “cat fur”. I had forgotten until I read your reply. Thank you.
I have also heard and used that expression my whole life, especially in the place of “why”.
I don’t think I have heard, or used, “what for” in quite awhile in the sense of giving anybody a hard time. I wonder if that usage came about, in part at least, from people ‘toning down’ their words for the sake of the people present, such as children. I can think of other and stronger words for the same idea. I also wonder if Appalachian folks in particular tend as a lifeway to temper their language to avoid antagonizing people. I write that because I remember a time when I was small that it would have been unwise, and maybe not safe. There were old timers around then that didn’t take nothing from nobody. My great-great uncle who slept with a .38 under his pillow and a shotgun beside the bed was one such. They grew up when law was thin on the ground.
I have always heard that, and I still say it instead of why. Have you ever heard people say “they law”? When I was a kid, I heard it a lot. It was an expression of surprise.
Yes. My daddy’s family said “they law.”
I was thinking about phrase last week.
I’ve used “what for” as both your examples. I remember one time as a youngin, disagreeing with my mom over something and I asked “What for?”, she turned quickly and said “Because I’ll give you what for!”. Needless to say, I shut up and didn’t question her again, about whatever it was she telling me to do or correcting me over something. I knew perfectly well what she meant when she said she would “give me what for”. I’ve also heard and used “give them a piece of my mind”, when I wanted to tell someone off. I stopped using that saying after I moved to NC and a co-worker heard me say it and replied, “well you best not do that cause you need all your mind you got”. I have to admit, she made me laugh and actually think about what I had said. Once in a while I hear someone say, “well I’ll give them a piece of my mind” and I chuckle because I can still hear in my memory that co-worker telling me I’d better not cause I need all my mind I got….lol, and I agree.
I remember hearing some variations of the saying “I gave them a piece of my mind,” one I remember well is “be careful you don’t have any to waste or you don’t have enough to give away.” Like you, I always laughed and thought it was funny.
I’ve used this expression both ways for as long as I can remember.
I grew up with “Whut fur” and Mom would say, “to make the cat some britches. or cat fur to make kitten britches.”
The first time I heard the expression “cat fur to make kitten britches” was on the Beverly Hillbillies. I thought it was so funny and such a great line. Didn’t realize it had been used for years
I have heard “I’ll give him the what for” when a person was upset and thought someone needed a good talking to. I always say “what for” instead of why. I just haven’t thought about how much I say it until now. I believe it is not used so much by the younger members of my family. I hear my grandchildren ask why about everything.
I’ve heard and used “what for” both of those ways all my life. Most often, in place of why rather than the scolding. Also, I hear for what instead of why or what for.
We also use “what for” in both these ways. 🙂 Sometimes we add the word “the.” An example would be: “Boy, the next time I see her I’m going to give her the what for!” I’m laughing now as I type, because the words “the what” are double underlined in blue showing me that I have made a grammar mistake. LOL!
I have heard the way of telling someone off and the other way all my life.
This reminds me of something my family has always said too. Do what? When somebody says something and you didn’t quite understand them or you want them to repeat it, you say “do what?”
My youngest says this a lot and her cousins make fun of her. I guess she heard me say it so much when she was younger.
I guess I never payed much attention that people here where we live in NB, Canada, don’t say the same things I did growing up in Florida. I realized I talk different, but the expressions are really different too.
Laura Lee, we say do what too 🙂 Here’s a post about it: https://blindpigandtheacorn.com/do-what/
Sometimes when we didn’t hear, don’t understand or can’t hardly believe what somebody said, we’ll say “Say what?”
Ed-we do too and sometimes just say 🙂
My mom used to say “do what?” too.
Good morning all! I heard this saying growing up in the 50s here in Michigan. Enjoyed last nights video as I do all of them. Thank you for inviting us into your life and allowing us to Celebrate Appalachia with you. Any idea who is the man in the picture? Blessings and prayers for all.
Kathleen, thank you!! The photo is my grandfather Charlie Jenkins.
I haven’t heard this in a long time, but it was very common when I was growing up in NC. Dad might say, “I’m going to town.” and we’d say, “What for?” meaning why are you going? usually followed up with, “Can I go with you?” My Mom might call us to come to her and we’d reply with “what for?” meaning why, or what do you need? She didn’t like that response and would usually say, ” It doesn’t matter, just come here!” The other usage was common that someone was really getting fussed at…”the teacher called him up to her desk and she was really giving him what for!” It’s weird how phrases can be used so frequently and disappear from usage and we just forget them. Thanks for the reminder of this phrase. I appreciate you keeping our language alive! ♥️
What for! Is still alive and well in Texas. Thanks for the lesson.
I most often say “what for” like in the example you give with Chitter. I have heard and have said giving them “down the road.” Seems and sounds like giving them “what for” is a nicer way of saying I gave them “ h..l” or the devil.